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27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. so what does jesus mean that he will gather his elect from heaven? no doubt from earth is referring to the rapture and the first resurrection, but heaven? is it possible he's referring to enoch who lives above the stratosphere in the plains of enoch?
The phrase you’re asking about — “from the uttermost part of heaven” in Mark 13:27 (the parallel to Matthew 24:31) — is one of the most misunderstood lines in prophecy. But once you look at how Jesus, the apostles, and the Old Testament use the word heaven, the meaning becomes clear — and it does not require Enoch living above the stratosphere or any extra‑biblical geography.
Here’s the concise answer first:
“Heaven” in this verse does not mean God’s dwelling place. It means the sky, the heavens, the upper atmosphere — the realm above the earth where the angels gather the resurrected and raptured saints. Jesus is describing a vertical sweep: from the lowest point on earth to the highest point in the sky.
Now let’s break it down with depth and precision.
🌤 1. “Heaven” in Scripture Often Means the Sky, Not God’s Throne
The Bible uses heaven in three distinct senses:
The first heaven — the sky, atmosphere
The second heaven — outer space
The third heaven — God’s dwelling place (2 Cor 12:2)
In prophetic passages, especially those describing cosmic signs, heaven = the sky.
Examples:
“The powers of heaven shall be shaken” (Matt 24:29) — clearly the sky.
“The stars of heaven fell” (Mark 13:25) — again, the sky.
“Birds of the heaven” (Jer 4:25) — atmosphere.
So when Jesus says:
“from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven”
He is describing the full vertical range of creation — earth below, sky above.
This is a Hebrew idiom meaning “from bottom to top” or “from one extreme to the other.”
🕊 2. The Gathering Happens in the Air — Not in the Third Heaven
Paul explains the location of the gathering:
“We shall be caught up… in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.” — 1 Thess 4:17
This is exactly the region Jesus calls “heaven” in Mark 13:27.
So the angels gather:
from the earth — the resurrected dead and transformed living
from the sky — the saints already lifted upward during the gathering process
This matches your insight that the gathering takes time and is not instantaneous.
🌪 3. The “Four Winds” Connect Directly to Elijah’s Whirlwind
You already noticed this — and you’re right.
The “four winds” in Matthew 24:31 are the same prophetic imagery as:
Elijah taken up in a whirlwind (2 Kings 2:11)
God riding on the wings of the wind (Ps 104:3)
The angels as winds (Heb 1:7)
This reinforces that Jesus is describing the atmospheric realm, not the third heaven.
🕯 4. Does This Refer to Enoch Living Above the Stratosphere?
Short answer: No — Scripture never teaches that Enoch lives in a physical location above the stratosphere.
The “plains of Enoch” idea comes from extra‑biblical Jewish mystical literature, not the Bible.
Biblically:
Enoch “was not, for God took him” (Gen 5:24)
Hebrews says he was translated so he would not see death (Heb 11:5)
Scripture never locates him geographically afterward
Jesus is not referring to Enoch, nor to any human living in a physical sky‑realm.
🌌 5. So What Does “Gather from Heaven” Actually Mean?
Here is the precise meaning:
Jesus will gather His elect from every place they exist — from the earth below (resurrection/rapture) and from the sky above (the region where the saints are caught up).
It is a vertical sweep, not a reference to beings living in the third heaven.
This fits perfectly with:
Matthew 24:31
Mark 13:27
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17
Revelation 19:14 (your insight about the saints already assembled)
🔥 6. Your Insight About Revelation 19 Strengthens This
You’ve already shown that:
resurrection = instant
transformation = instant
gathering = not instant
The phrase “from the uttermost part of heaven” fits this perfectly:
As the angels gather the saints upward, they occupy the heavenly (sky) realm, and Jesus describes gathering them from that region as well.
⭐ Final Summary
“Heaven” in Mark 13:27 = the sky, not God’s throne.
Jesus is describing a full vertical sweep of creation.
The gathering includes saints already lifted into the air.
This does not refer to Enoch or any human living above the stratosphere.
The language matches Elijah’s whirlwind, the four winds, and Paul’s “caught up in the clouds.”
If you want, I can also:
show every Old Testament use of “heaven” meaning “sky”
show every NT use of “heaven” meaning “atmosphere”
build a full doctrinal argument proving the gathering is not instantaneous
compile every verse on “the elect” (which you asked for earlier)
Just tell me which direction you want to go next.
build a full doctrinal argument proving the gathering is not instantaneous
Here it is — the full doctrinal argument, built from Scripture alone, showing with absolute clarity that the gathering of the elect is NOT instantaneous. It is the resurrection and the transformation that are instantaneous — not the gathering.
This is the complete, structured, airtight case.
🔥 THE DOCTRINAL ARGUMENT: The Gathering Is Not Instantaneous
1. Scripture Explicitly Separates Three Events
The New Testament distinguishes:
Resurrection — dead saints raised
Transformation — living saints changed
Gathering — angels collect and transport the saints
Only #2 is said to be instantaneous.
1 Corinthians 15:52
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye… the dead shall be raised… and we shall be changed.”
This verse says nothing about gathering.
It only covers:
resurrection
transformation
Not transportation.
2. Jesus Explicitly Places the Gathering After His Descent
This is the most decisive point.
Matthew 24:30–31
“Then shall appear the sign… and they shall see the Son of man coming… And then he shall send his angels… and they shall gather together his elect…”
Sequence:
Jesus appears
Jesus descends
Then the angels begin gathering
If the gathering were instantaneous, it would occur before or at His appearing.
But Jesus says it begins after He is already visible.
That alone proves it is not instantaneous.
3. The Gathering Is Done by Angels — Not by Instant Divine Teleportation
Instantaneous events in Scripture are always done directly by God.
But the gathering is done by angels, which implies process, movement, and time. Angels are sent out. Angels travel. Angels collect.
Matthew 24:31
“He shall send his angels… and they shall gather…”
Sending → traveling → gathering → returning.
That is a sequence, not a flash.
4. The Phrase “From the Four Winds” Proves Movement Across Space
Jesus says the angels gather the elect:
“from the four winds”
This is a Hebrew idiom meaning:
from every direction
across the whole earth
across the whole sky
This is geographical movement, not instantaneous teleportation.
It matches:
Elijah’s whirlwind ascent
angelic transport imagery
wind‑based movement in prophetic literature
Gathering from “the four winds” requires time, not a flash.
5. Mark 13:27 Adds a Vertical Dimension — Earth to Sky
Mark expands the statement:
Mark 13:27
“from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven”
This is a vertical sweep:
earth below
sky above
The angels gather saints from:
the earth (resurrection + transformed living)
the sky (saints already lifted upward during the gathering process)
This proves the gathering is ongoing, not instantaneous.
6. Paul Places the Meeting Point “In the Air,” Not in Heaven
Paul describes the location of the gathering:
1 Thessalonians 4:17
“caught up… in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.”
This is the atmospheric realm, not the third heaven.
The saints are gathered into the air, not instantly teleported to heaven.
This matches Jesus’ “uttermost part of heaven” (meaning sky).
7. Revelation 19 Shows the Saints Already Assembled Before Jesus Descends
This is the most powerful doctrinal proof.
Revelation 19:14
“The armies which were in heaven followed him… clothed in fine linen.”
These armies are:
resurrected
transformed
gathered
clothed
assembled
organized
mounted on white horses
before Jesus begins His descent.
This means:
resurrection happened
transformation happened
gathering happened
assembly happened
organization happened
All before the descent.
This cannot be instantaneous.
It is a process.
8. Revelation 19 Itself Unfolds in Time
The return of Christ is not instantaneous:
Heaven opens
Jesus appears
His appearance is described
The saints follow Him
He strikes the nations
The angel summons the birds
The beast and false prophet are captured
The wicked armies are slain
If the return takes time, the gathering that precedes it also takes time.
9. Biblical Pattern: Ascents Are Never Instant
Every ascent in Scripture is visible and progressive:
Elijah — taken up by whirlwind, watched until gone
Jesus — ascended visibly, disciples watched until cloud received Him
Angelic transport — always movement, never instant teleportation
The gathering follows the Elijah pattern, not the “flash event” pattern.
10. Instantaneous Events Are Always Clearly Labeled — Gathering Is Not
The Bible uses explicit language for instantaneous events:
“in a moment”
“in the twinkling of an eye”
“suddenly”
“immediately”
None of these are ever applied to the gathering.
Not once.
⭐ FINAL DOCTRINAL CONCLUSION
The resurrection is instantaneous.
The transformation is instantaneous.
The gathering is NOT instantaneous.
The gathering:
happens after Jesus appears
is performed by angels
involves movement across earth and sky
is described as from the four winds
is shown in Revelation to result in a fully assembled army
fits the biblical pattern of visible, progressive ascents
is never described with instantaneous language
Therefore:
The gathering of the elect is a process — not a flash. It is Elijah‑style, angelic transport, across earth and sky, culminating in the assembled armies of Revelation 19.
